Earliest Christianity ie; Judaism

Re: Earliest Christianity ie; Judaism

feeds@yuku.com (Zachary M) — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 03:31:31 GMT

Beloved:
Well, the phrase "from scripture" is problematic. What I think you mean is that nowhere in Scripture does it specifically say that there will be "Two Messiahs." Granted you won't find that language there in that form. However, this doesn't mean that "some" haven't argued for "Two Messiahs" from Scripture. Many things are not stated precisely "in Scripture" but are argued "from...

Re: Earliest Christianity ie; Judaism

feeds@yuku.com (Beloved) — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 10:31:36 GMT

Hello Brother Roger and Glen,

Roger, you said:

Roger -- Good question. This is food for thought for those of us who affirm that one man will indeed fulfill all messianic expectations, though some aspects are left unfulfilled at the present time. If I recall, the terms used to denote these two messiahs are the "Suffering Messiah" and the "Triumphant Messiah". I can sympathize with those who think that Jesus didn't fulfill the expectation for a...

Re: Earliest Christianity ie; Judaism

feeds@yuku.com (55Glen) — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:14:33 GMT

Hi Beloved.

Doesn't the same Christ that came as the sacrificial Lamb whom the scripture foretold, also foretell His coming again as the Messiah King that comes back to sit on His earthly fathers throne? Matthew 24 was Him telling the disciples I am coming back so I don't see any room for another one popping up.

Glen.

Re: Earliest Christianity ie; Judaism

feeds@yuku.com (Brother Roger) — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 13:38:24 GMT

Beloved -- The issue here seems to be "Messianic Expectations" and, Can I be candid enough to admit that reading this exhange is a little frustrating for me? Mind you, it is not what either of you have said that is frustrating to me. But if we were all three to sit down at a coffee table, have one of our favorite beverages and just converse about these things, it would be a lot more satisfactory experience (at least for me).

BR -- I can vouch for that. I have sat down with...

Re: Earliest Christianity ie; Judaism

feeds@yuku.com (Beloved) — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:39:04 GMT

Beloved's Reply:
Yep, that's what I said. I didn't say I agreed with it (or not), because that's not the issue. The question was "Jesus" and whether He has fulfilled the Messianic Expectations (plural). Without getting into what all of those are, I've provided a little bit of history as to how some view this, that there very well could be "Two Messiahs." This at least has been argued. Given your reply "Two Messiahs" I take that you were...

Re: Earliest Christianity ie; Judaism

feeds@yuku.com (55Glen) — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:20:36 GMT

Beloved wrote:

Hello Glen,

Glen, your said:
"Two Messiahs?"

Beloved's Reply:
Yep, that's what I said. I didn't say I agreed with it (or not), because that's not the issue. The question was "Jesus" and whether He has fulfilled the Messianic Expectations (plural). Without getting into what all of those are, I've provided a little bit of...

Re: Earliest Christianity ie; Judaism

feeds@yuku.com (Beloved) — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 12:29:45 GMT

Hello Glen,

Glen, your said:
"Two Messiahs?"

Beloved's Reply:
Yep, that's what I said. I didn't say I agreed with it (or not), because that's not the issue. The question was "Jesus" and whether He has fulfilled the Messianic Expectations (plural). Without getting into what all of those are, I've provided a little bit of history as to how some view this, that there very well could be "Two Messiahs." This at...

Re: Earliest Christianity ie; Judaism

feeds@yuku.com (55Glen) — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:12:37 GMT

Beloved wrote:
Hello Always and Zachary

Although I've been around I feel like I'm jumping in midstream on your recent dialogue with each other. But jump in I am going to do anyhow.

Here is what you said a few replies ago Always:

All I am trying to get at is the claim that Judaism must be rejected IF one were to claim the belief that Jesus of Nazareth was the One sent...

Re: Earliest Christianity ie; Judaism

feeds@yuku.com (Zachary M) — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 16:27:27 GMT

Beloved wrote:

Hello Always and Zachary

Although I've been around I feel like I'm jumping in midstream on your recent dialogue with each other. But jump in I am going to do anyhow.

Discussion is open. Jump in as you wish.

Beloved: Okay, here are a few of my comments on these exchanges (just the ones above, however).

The issue here seems to be "Messianic...

Re: Earliest Christianity ie; Judaism

feeds@yuku.com (Beloved) — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:39:33 GMT

Hello Always and Zachary

Although I've been around I feel like I'm jumping in midstream on your recent dialogue with each other. But jump in I am going to do anyhow.

Here is what you said a few replies ago Always:

All I am trying to get at is the claim that Judaism must be rejected IF one were to claim the belief that Jesus of Nazareth was the One sent by God to save all Israel. I am sure that many people MUCH more knowledgeable then us must...

Re: Earliest Christianity ie; Judaism

feeds@yuku.com (Zachary M) — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 00:34:27 GMT

alwayseekin wrote:
Thank you for your response ... I hope you don't think I was prying into things that are too personal, that was not my intent. I was just trying to figure out how committed you were to Christianity before you changed your mind/practice/teaching for Judaism

Not at all. I enjoy sharing and hearing about the journeys we are each on and how we got where we are.

Thanks for sharing...

Re: Earliest Christianity ie; Judaism

feeds@yuku.com (alwayseekin) — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:34:14 GMT

Thank you for your response ... I hope you don't think I was prying into things that are too personal, that was not my intent. I was just trying to figure out how committed you were to Christianity before you changed your mind/practice/teaching for Judaism

My story is a bit opposite of yours. I grew up in a secular home, divorced parents who each took some of us kids ... and no contact between us. God was not to be found there. My Aunt gave me a bible for my high school...

Re: Earliest Christianity ie; Judaism

feeds@yuku.com (bluesky22) — Sun, 31 May 2009 14:02:45 GMT

Zach,

Hi Michael. In the 'NT', Jesus did indeed validate the shema as the highest commandment of all. He also is recorded to have said many things in his testimony that I would not accept.

1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen...

Re: Earliest Christianity ie; Judaism

feeds@yuku.com (Zachary M) — Sat, 30 May 2009 01:03:06 GMT

Posts: 9999

Wow. Just noticed that. Getting ready for the big 10,000 there Brother Roger.

Re: Earliest Christianity ie; Judaism

feeds@yuku.com (Zachary M) — Sat, 30 May 2009 00:58:42 GMT

Well, isn't this what Jesus taught too? Forget for a moment what might have been added by Christianity afterward and just take His own testimony? Jesus did not claim to be the True formless God of their fathers ... nor did His followers who wrote to the churches afterward claim this about him [although it does seem to be an attribute assigned to Him today]

Hi Michael. In the 'NT', Jesus did indeed validate the shema as the highest...

Re: Earliest Christianity ie; Judaism

feeds@yuku.com (Brother Roger) — Fri, 29 May 2009 11:49:18 GMT

1) Can't a person practice Judaism AND accept Christ Jesus as the messiah?

Answer: I believe we have different "flavors" of Judaism today; and each would give a different answer to that question. On the whole, I can't see how the praxis itself would rule out a belief in Jesus. I imagine that the rituals would look the same regardless of whether a man, in his heart, accepted that Jesus was the...

Re: Earliest Christianity ie; Judaism

feeds@yuku.com (alwayseekin) — Thu, 28 May 2009 13:21:44 GMT

I am just being me ;-)

1) My opinion now is no, though that leaves open the concept of exactly what Judaism is. One of the primary themes of Judaism is "shema". God is One, without form. This is the God our ancestors knew and we were repeatedly warned not to follow if anyone tried to share a god that was unlike the God our ancestors knew.

Well, isn't this what Jesus taught too? Forget...

Re: Earliest Christianity ie; Judaism

feeds@yuku.com (Zachary M) — Thu, 28 May 2009 02:31:08 GMT

Hi Michael,

Thanks for your questions and the manner in which you pose them. I'll try to respond a bit.

I can understand that today's Jews, as well as many many Jews of Jesus' day, do not acknowledge the legitimacy of the New Testament. Still, it seems to me that those folks WERE & DID experience "some sort of change" within Judaism.

I have no disagreement that some may have experienced something. Jewish...

Re: Earliest Christianity ie; Judaism

feeds@yuku.com (bluesky22) — Mon, 25 May 2009 15:22:36 GMT

... I will say this - at some point in the future it will all be one again and I'm betting it will look more like Judaism then it does modern Christianity

If anyone walks with Jesus and becomes...

Earliest Christianity ie; Judaism

feeds@yuku.com (alwayseekin) — Mon, 25 May 2009 11:44:40 GMT

Hello All & Happy Memorial Day!

Roger, I saw your last response in the "Food for Thought" thread & decided there was enough interest to dig up and post my questions [your single interest is always enough for me ;-) ]

Here is Zack's post from the other thread which also contains my original question

alwayseekin wrote:
... and thank you Zack ;-)
...