Food For Thought

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Author	Comment
Zachary M		#41	[-]
Posts: 275 (05/07/09 01:38:52) Valued Contributor Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Biblepath wrote: Hello Zack, I sort of got hung up on "ouch" for quite a while. Looks like most others did also. To a certain extent, of course, in explaining this - - - - what your statements bring to mind, is the thought - - - - "if he has left his first love" .... then - - - And the wet pillow hit the ground, with a soft splat..... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- BUT - - - after listening to you, and reading, then re-reading this thread... .... Another thought comes to mind. BUT, of COURSE - - Jesus has not yet fulfilled all the messianic prophecies! He has not yet returned, as - - King of Kings! Yet we - - the Christians - - accept this as a "Given" that he WILL fulfill the rest of the prophecies. And we would agree, that - - he has not yet done this. And Paul says - - the Greeks seek after wisdom, but the Jews seek after a sign... . Interesting. .. .. .. .. My comment would be - - that - - you have not been watching quite the right things, else you would believe on Christ now... but - - if you can live a couple of decades more, you will then believe again, and probably weep. Nuff said for now. Later, Bert Hi Bert, All I can really think to say here is that for the greater majority of my life, my first love was self/ego. I long for the day when I can fully lose that first love and truly seek the will of the Creator. Blessings, Zachary
Zachary M		#42	[-]
Posts: 276 (05/07/09 02:51:30) Valued Contributor Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Linda marie wrote: Hello Zachary, I do not see Jesus or anyone else yet who has fulfilled the requirements to be Messiah. What 'requirements' are you looking for the Messiah to have? In other words, I assume you "are" looking for Messiah to come, so how will you recognise Him? If the same Yeshua [who lived on earth a couple of thousand years ago] * returns * delivers the Jewish people * gives them their homeland * rules on earth - would you accept Him? What if He also has nail scars in His hands and His feet? How did you interpret the prophetic Hebrew Scriptures when you were a Messanic, and how do you explain the same Scriptures now? Thanks, LindaMarie Hi LindaMarie, I am indeed looking for a messiah to come. One who will be a descendant of King David through Solomon. One who will return the sons of Jacob to Israel from all the corners of the world and govern in righteousness. One who will lead Israel to do the words of Moses and obedience to Torah and make the name of God known throughout the world so that peace will reign. Thats a few of the things I would begin to look for. Would I accept Jesus if he did fulfill all the prophecies concerning who the Messiah is? I would accept whoever fulfilled the prophesies in full. That would, of course, consist of teaching Israel to walk in the instruction of Moses, as well as not claiming to be God in the flesh. But I am looking for actions and results moreso than who is doing them. Any marks on hands or feet would be insignificant in what I'm looking for. As for your question on interpretation, that was the key question for me in where I am. I had previously accepted things roughly as they had been explained to me, with a few tweaks. It's hard to clear ones mind once it has been primed, but I really got to a point where I felt the challenge to do so. As I began to really consider many prophesies in depth, my whole view of things had to be re-evaluated. Believe me, it was a very gradual thing. It is a scary thought to begin contemplating giving up something you had been taught was your only hope of salvation, but I soon realized it was even scarier to seek to remain stagnant when God was continuing to place people and experiences in my path that urged me to move forward. It was a saying someone wiser than I taught me years ago that came to mind, "when we stop moving...we die", that coaxed me on. I guess I could say that my overall view now is really one that looks more at how a person lives their life than what doctrines they believe. Blessings, Zack Last Edited By: Zachary M 05/07/09 02:54:18. Edited 1 times.
Zachary M		#43	[-]
Posts: 277 (05/07/09 03:00:01) Valued Contributor Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Brother Roger wrote: Zachary M wrote: Brother Roger wrote: In your post to Micheal, at times you appeared to be speaking for Judaism and the Jews as a people and at other times you appeared to be speaking for yourself. It was unclear whether you, personally, believe that Jesus is the messiah. You said that the three main objections Jews have to Jesus being a messiah were 1) A man can't be God, 2) Jesus did not fulfill the prophecies, 3) Jews don't believe in original sin. Would you like to open up a dialog about any of these here? In case I did not answer that specifically, then the answer is no. I do not see Jesus or anyone else yet who has fulfilled the requirements to be Messiah. I am fine with discussing these subjects. My only reservation is that I don't want such discussions to cause contention. I already have quite a number of people from previous Messianic fellowship that no longer speak to me because of my conversion, which has saddened me greatly. Blessings Zack Hi Zack, Please answer the others first, but when you get around to it, I was wondering if you had read any of the books on the "New Perspective" on Paul and if these influenced you at all? I haven't read them but I've seen a summary of this view and it seems to parallel some things you are saying. Hi Roger, No. I have never heard of this "New Perspective", so if there is a parallel it did not come from that. Blessings, Zack
bluesky22		#44	[-]
Posts: 85 (05/10/09 13:55:14) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Mat 11:26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: Joh 5:23 That all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father which hath sent him. Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: but he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 1Jn 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life,
Beloved	Of these Scriptures - - -	#45	[-]
Posts: 1297 (05/12/09 09:05:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Which One Best Applies with Regard to The Concern(s) Raised? And Why? (Did Philip toss the Eunich a Scroll and say "Here, Read This"?) Beloved
Beloved	Hello Zachary	#46	[-]
Posts: 1298 (05/12/09 09:22:49) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hello Zachary, I've been reading along, including some of your concerns regarding "Yeshua" - and honestly, I think we have all had some difficult issue of faith to address at one time or another. And, I know there are definitely some issues which are more problematic for one who is "Jewish" regarding "Yeshua" (or the "Christ" that is presented to them). For instance, one particular difficulty a "Jewish Person" can have is the repulsion at even the idea of "Human Sacrifice." Although this is not one that you mentioned. I don't think many people grasp how perplexing an issue like this can be. But I've got a question for you, which is asked with no motivation other than a genuine concern about what I'm asking. How many people would you say have tried to address the concerns/issues you have raised here (or other concerns)? I mean, how many have legitimately taken in hand to reasonably discuss any of these issues? By reasonably, I mean actually taking time to figure out where you are coming from, and what you have seen in the text of Scripture, and exploring these with you in a, well, reasonable manner? Perhaps without anger, judgment, condemnation, or simply "cutting you off" (either verbally or physically separating from you)? Beloved Last Edited By: Beloved 05/12/09 09:35:31. Edited 2 times.
bluesky22	That sums it all up.	#47	[-]
Posts: 86 (05/13/09 19:51:41) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The eunuch was already reading the scriptures with a seeking heart. Philip did not give them to the eunuch. For one thing God saw his heart and in the other God sent Philip to explain that these OT verses were speaking of Jesus of Nazareth and then explained to the eunuch the way of salvation as was presented at the first to the 3000 and then to the Samarians of acts 8. The eunuch then obeyed likewise and went on his way rejoicing because upon him fell the Holy Spirit as it did at the beginning as it did upon all of the saved throughout Acts without exception. Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. This can not yet have happened to Zack it seems as yet, nor to anyone else who can not testify of it happening to them. Note that the eunuch was a believer who had come to Jerusalem to worship and he was still in his sins unil he was baptized and the Holy Spirit had fallen upon him, as are some of you. Blue.
Zachary M		#48	[-]
Posts: 278 (05/14/09 04:37:49) Valued Contributor Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Beloved wrote: Hello Zachary, I've been reading along, including some of your concerns regarding "Yeshua" - and honestly, I think we have all had some difficult issue of faith to address at one time or another. And, I know there are definitely some issues which are more problematic for one who is "Jewish" regarding "Yeshua" (or the "Christ" that is presented to them). For instance, one particular difficulty a "Jewish Person" can have is the repulsion at even the idea of "Human Sacrifice." Although this is not one that you mentioned. I don't think many people grasp how perplexing an issue like this can be. But I've got a question for you, which is asked with no motivation other than a genuine concern about what I'm asking. How many people would you say have tried to address the concerns/issues you have raised here (or other concerns)? I mean, how many have legitimately taken in hand to reasonably discuss any of these issues? By reasonably, I mean actually taking time to figure out where you are coming from, and what you have seen in the text of Scripture, and exploring these with you in a, well, reasonable manner? Perhaps without anger, judgment, condemnation, or simply "cutting you off" (either verbally or physically separating from you)? Beloved Hi Beloved, Yes, I would have issue with human sacrifice, but since I don't believe in original sin anyway, it's not really an issue I concern myself with. I really have no issue with Yeshua or Jesus. I simply no longer see him as essential in my walk. I know thats hard to understand as I have been on the other side of the aisle also. I tried to explain to Jews who Yeshua was and why they needed him back when I was a Messianic. I also, at one time, felt a need to explain to Christians why they needed to follow Moses, keep the correct feasts, etc. If there is one thing I really feel since converting, it was a sense of freedom. That is, I no longer feel that need to make others believe as I do. I feel much more at peace with who I am. I believe we can all be in different places, yet still doing God's will in our lives. To address the latter part of your question, well very few, maybe a handful of people seriously tried to understand where I was and talk about it. A few tried to talk with me and just got frustrated and quit trying. Probably because they were intent on changing my mind and what they were using to try were things that no longer held weight with me. The greater majority of people just seemed to want to ignore me while maintaining a friendly front. I think most of them liked me alright but didn't want to be seen as rocking the boat. Then another handful on the other extreme told me things like I was going to burn in hell and could not be saved. Ironically, that group included 2 or 3 fairly well-known leaders in the Messianic movement. Of that minority that did seriously discuss things with me, we remain good friends, and they are extremely valuable to me because losing some of the other friendships I had developed in fellowship was far more hurtful to me than any of the words against me personally. Hope that was a thorough answer. I really felt like I had a crash course in psychology during the time all this was going on. LOL. Blessings, Zack
Biblepath		#49	[-]
Posts: 91 (05/15/09 20:04:26) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hello zack will make a comment here. Would like to ask - - - why are you bothering us with this? Let me try to explain. By definition - - you have said in your posts, that you USED to belive in Christ - - but now you do not but are looking for a Different Messiah. OK. I understand that. But - - "by definition" what this means, is - - you pretty well totally reject, what the New Testament authors proclaim. "Jesus Christ rose from the dead, and he is the Messiah. You therefore, by definition, must therefore believe Matthew through John of Revelation are the insane - - deluded or lying folk. Therefore, we, the Christians on this board have (I believe) very little in common with you. We discuss, at times, all of these books, trying to figure out what exactly they might mean, yet - - you should - - - not be able to fully commune with us. Your focus and approach would be quite different from ours. So - - I was just wondering at your motives, for posting here. Are you looking for followers to your new beliefs? Are you just enjoying things? Are you looking for fellowship of some kind? Or do you just enjoy bothering us with these things? Just curious. Bert
Zachary M		#50	[-]
Posts: 279 (05/15/09 23:58:22) Valued Contributor Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Biblepath wrote: Hello zack will make a comment here. Would like to ask - - - why are you bothering us with this? Let me try to explain. By definition - - you have said in your posts, that you USED to belive in Christ - - but now you do not but are looking for a Different Messiah. OK. I understand that. But - - "by definition" what this means, is - - you pretty well totally reject, what the New Testament authors proclaim. "Jesus Christ rose from the dead, and he is the Messiah. You therefore, by definition, must therefore believe Matthew through John of Revelation are the insane - - deluded or lying folk. Therefore, we, the Christians on this board have (I believe) very little in common with you. We discuss, at times, all of these books, trying to figure out what exactly they might mean, yet - - you should - - - not be able to fully commune with us. Your focus and approach would be quite different from ours. So - - I was just wondering at your motives, for posting here. Are you looking for followers to your new beliefs? Are you just enjoying things? Are you looking for fellowship of some kind? Or do you just enjoy bothering us with these things? Just curious. Bert Hi Bert, I have posted here in the past going back 8 years or so and before that at Bro Shaynes board so I just check by once in a while out of habit. I reply rather infrequently in recent times however. In the case of this thread (go back to the beginning), I simply made a (lame) attempt at humor based on some of Beloved's original observations. Then, in reply to Michael, I made clarification as to my beliefs as he seemed to be asking me something based on assumption that I was coming from a Messianic Jewish perspective. From there I was asked a few questions and I just tried to answer what people asked me about. I didn't intend for the discussion to be directed the way it is (that is, about me). I certainly don't mean to bother you, nor am I looking to change anyones beliefs. I am content following my own journey and allowing others to experience their own journeys as well. I do agree that my focus is different from yours, but I also believe there are plenty of commonalities if we choose to look for them rather than only our differences. I also believe that may be important in the days ahead. Anyway, if folks here feel that I am disrupting things, just say so and I will refrain from coming around in the future. It is certainly not my intent to cause any problems. Blessings, Zack
Eugene210		#51	[-]
Posts: 470 (05/16/09 06:30:07) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Would like to ask - - - why are you bothering us with this? I was thinking how politely Zachary conducted himself despite being treated in a few instances as nothing more than a mission field. I once ran a forum which I restricted to people who met certain doctrinal tests that I thought included them in an arbitrary "us". The results were less than satisfactory, and ironically, the people who've treated me the most decently subsequent to that time were people on this forum who weren't allowed in. That's why I continue posting here. Time and honesty have seen me step outside my own doctrinal hedge. Time does that, and even if you remain broadly Christian over time, you have probably shifted enough that someone in some fundamentalist camp somewhere would consider you an apostate.
Biblepath		#52	[-]
Posts: 92 (05/16/09 12:11:26) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hello Eugene, I will - - agree, at least in part - - but - - I do think the question somewhat stands - - - - - Perhaps he can share for those of us who post on this board, But if he can not - - then I do believe that he should ask this question privately - - himself. A parallel might be this. If a man talks to a woman and he proclaims to one an all that she is absolutely nuts, - - yet he strives to promote and continue a relationship with her - - - and chat with her, then - - - - - - - - something is truly a bit off. The fellow needs to figure out - - I believe - - what is going on. Perhaps he is tempting himself with her? But for the Girl, to pretend (if she KNOWS because of his words) that she is considered to be insane by him, then - - it is the gals duty to hold his feet a bit closer to the fire, to figure out if he is playing with her, or just what is going on. Nothing personal of course, but - - the question needs to be asked. Bert
alwayseekin	Greetings All	#53	[-]
Posts: 2359 (05/16/09 13:07:20) Knight in shining armor Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I want to point out that "we" have a rare opportunity to talk these issues out as friends, respecting each other as is the spirit of this board to do. Afterall, most of us have not come across the situation where a friend has been in the Christian fold, only to personally look at and decide upon the issues at hand, switching to another religion. Lets face it, most of us are born into a culture, grow up in and learn about that and don't go much further to one side or another. I think it rare to find one who grew up Christian and moved toward Judaism [my own limited observation ... I may be completely misinformed] I just don't know how to go about opening this whole area up for discussion without opening Zack up to attack along the way ;-) I had hoped Beloved had the same view of this and was seeking such an opening for us. Maybe we could begin a new thread since this one has gotten so long ... I did want to question and revisit my comment about those early Christians Peter & Paul again. I believe Zack misunderstood my prior mention of them, or at least what I was trying to ask concerning them and their generation. My focus was not the validity of the NT scriptures themselves, but the environment that led to their conversion, especially Paul [if this is even a valid term to use for it]. It seems to me that MANY many of our conversations here in the past have had an underlying, and unresolved, issue of Jewish Christianity to them. If any of this is interesting to others, I will dig out the previous question/answer and try again. Blessings, Michael ps - I am not so deluded as to think difficult questions/debate/arguments(?) will not pop up in these type of threads, and I do not think Zack is so blind either. Yet he has shown a willingness to share his experiences with us ... I am convinced that we are mature enough to get past these heated issues when they do rise to the surface and/or when they are pointed out as being offensive. I do wish we all had a bit more time to post on a regular basis, instead of just checking in every week or so. I will try to do so each day, especially if something begins to develop here ... once the ball gets rolling again we'll probably wish we would slow down LOL
Zachary M		#54	[-]
Posts: 280 (05/17/09 05:17:32) Valued Contributor Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Biblepath wrote: Hello Eugene, I will - - agree, at least in part - - but - - I do think the question somewhat stands - - - - - Perhaps he can share for those of us who post on this board, But if he can not - - then I do believe that he should ask this question privately - - himself. A parallel might be this. If a man talks to a woman and he proclaims to one an all that she is absolutely nuts, - - yet he strives to promote and continue a relationship with her - - - and chat with her, then - - - - - - - - something is truly a bit off. The fellow needs to figure out - - I believe - - what is going on. Perhaps he is tempting himself with her? But for the Girl, to pretend (if she KNOWS because of his words) that she is considered to be insane by him, then - - it is the gals duty to hold his feet a bit closer to the fire, to figure out if he is playing with her, or just what is going on. Nothing personal of course, but - - the question needs to be asked. Bert Hi Bert, Thats quite an unusual analogy in that I know quite a few people who constantly tell me their girlfriend/wife is nuts. I think in some cases maybe that attracts them. Love can do some strange things. OK, humor aside, since you feel you need a response, I'll try to address your question. Let me try to explain. By definition - - you have said in your posts, that you USED to belive in Christ - - but now you do not but are looking for a Different Messiah. OK. I understand that. But - - "by definition" what this means, is - - you pretty well totally reject, what the New Testament authors proclaim. "Jesus Christ rose from the dead, and he is the Messiah. You therefore, by definition, must therefore believe Matthew through John of Revelation are the insane - - deluded or lying folk. True, I may no longer believe the NT to be inspired or that Jesus rose from the dead, etc. And whatever I might think of the authors of the NT books is really insignificant. I can't communicate with them anyway. I can only communicate with those alive today. Therefore, we, the Christians on this board have (I believe) very little in common with you. We discuss, at times, all of these books, trying to figure out what exactly they might mean, yet - - you should - - - not be able to fully commune with us. Your focus and approach would be quite different from ours. Though I believe there are many common things we do share, I understand what you say. I cannot, as you say, fully commune with you. My focus and approach is indeed different. That's not hard to figure out. I understand you discuss and study those books, and I don't jump in and intervene in such discussions specifically for those reasons. I want to respect that space. Still, does not being able to fully commune also mean not being able to converse entirely? Why are there thousands of Christian denominations that each think the others lack some critical element that was worthy of separating themselves into a new community? I see some of the same thing in Judaism, just on a smaller scale. Divisions are easy to create. It is far more difficult to strive for unity. No, we're not going to have a perfect unity without God's intervention, but IMO that should not prevent being able to converse. I have experienced something that I find interesting in my walk. During my time as a Messianic, I found there were many tensions with Christians regarding things such obedience to the Law, which Feast days to keep, Sabbath, the identity of who Yeshua/Jesus was, etc. Since my conversion to Judaism, I have found far more acceptance from Christians as a Jew and yet have been rejected by the Messianic communities. Not sure what to make of that, but I find it interesting. So - - I was just wondering at your motives, for posting here. Are you looking for followers to your new beliefs? Are you just enjoying things? Are you looking for fellowship of some kind? Or do you just enjoy bothering us with these things? My motives for posting here? As I said, I've been posting here for over 8 years. I remember way back to the days of posters such as DigitalAnarchy and Zacman555. There have been some interesting discussions over the years. I have benefitted from this community overall in my growth process. It's not like I just appeared on the scene with some motivation to cause problems. Do I even have a history as a problem poster here? I have posted rarely in the past couple of years, mainly for the reason stated above. I do recognize your interest and concerns and for that reason I did want to respond. I hope I have answered them at least somewhat. Blessings, Zack
bluesky22	For the record.	#55	[-]
Posts: 87 (05/17/09 16:42:40) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hi, I have absolutely no concerns about talking about the bible contents with any person whatever at any time through any format. The Bible is a public book and I tend to keep right away from comments on another person except to prod some using the scriptures and I usually get very little response to that. I find that many people have what I call "attitude" for one reason or another but usually because of some form of idolotry, which is found right across all members of society and the most catty and viscious responses more often come from the "christian" than from people of the "world" where world is of the general kind of the uninformed, whereas the informed who have entered into a religious culture which denies Jesus Christ openly is to be avoided once they have become hardened firmly into it, but they also have many members who are not hardened into it and still wondering, especially those naturally born into them. It really is none of my business where anyone is individually, but I just keep saying what comes to me to say which means that I become more discerning of what to say as time goes on and experience dictates. We are only the little children, and not the author and finisher of our faith. One overlooks everything, Who decides what we need to face and understand, for His own purposes. I would never shun anyone who is willing to talk about the Bible. I only draw the line on sharing personal experiences with the Lord which are for myself alone. Read Samson. Blue.
Biblepath		#56	[-]
Posts: 93 (05/17/09 19:02:54) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hello Zack What comes to mind - - for me, at least, is this.... In some respects - - all religions are - - - a bit nasty at times. There are wanna-be popes, and wanna-be prophets, and - - - all kinds of troubles in fellowships. Sometimes - - to keep the Church going - - - the smartest must be kicked out, because he/she is disturbing the fellowship. Point being - - Church unfortunately is filled with sinners, from the Top to the Bottom. And it sometimes gets quite dirty there - - . And when we take a bath, the water gets dirty. And at this time- - - , the old saw comes into play, of course, that says - - do not throw out the baby, with the dirty water.... And while this saying used to be around in farming communities, 100 years ago. In looking at the objections you have raised above - - such as, fighting among the church(es), and an unsettled eschatology... it appears to me, that what has happened, is - - you got tired of the dust that was flying, and you took your bath, and you threw out the baby Jesus, with the Bath water. And to me, that is quite an awful thing to have done. Ouch. Bert
Zachary M		#57	[-]
Posts: 281 (05/18/09 00:10:34) Valued Contributor Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Biblepath wrote: Hello Zack What comes to mind - - for me, at least, is this.... In some respects - - all religions are - - - a bit nasty at times. There are wanna-be popes, and wanna-be prophets, and - - - all kinds of troubles in fellowships. Sometimes - - to keep the Church going - - - the smartest must be kicked out, because he/she is disturbing the fellowship. Point being - - Church unfortunately is filled with sinners, from the Top to the Bottom. And it sometimes gets quite dirty there - - . And when we take a bath, the water gets dirty. And at this time- - - , the old saw comes into play, of course, that says - - do not throw out the baby, with the dirty water.... And while this saying used to be around in farming communities, 100 years ago. In looking at the objections you have raised above - - such as, fighting among the church(es), and an unsettled eschatology... it appears to me, that what has happened, is - - you got tired of the dust that was flying, and you took your bath, and you threw out the baby Jesus, with the Bath water. And to me, that is quite an awful thing to have done. Ouch. Bert Bert, You couldn't judge me any more incorrectly than you already have. Blessings, Zack
Brother Roger		#58	[-]
Posts: 9998 (05/24/09 07:15:14) Board Owner The Boss A gentle man A gentleman Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hi Zach, I have always, and continue to value your posts. Please feel free to continue posting and sharing your thoughts as we continue this journey together. Like Michael and the others, I too would like to continue the dialogue in a spirit of mutual respect and understanding. As I recall, one of the sticking points you raised earlier was the Trinity Doctrine, and of course, many here already know that I have an nontraditional view of Jesus' divinity. And so we could freely explore that issue here. Also, Michael has some questions that he would like to raise again, and I'm sure the others would also like to explore these issues. So, please feel free to post as time and motivation allow. With love and respect, Brother Roger Brother Roger Inter spem et metum.
Zachary M		#59	[-]
Posts: 282 (05/28/09 00:55:24) Valued Contributor Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Brother Roger wrote: Hi Zach, I have always, and continue to value your posts. Please feel free to continue posting and sharing your thoughts as we continue this journey together. Like Michael and the others, I too would like to continue the dialogue in a spirit of mutual respect and understanding. As I recall, one of the sticking points you raised earlier was the Trinity Doctrine, and of course, many here already know that I have an nontraditional view of Jesus' divinity. And so we could freely explore that issue here. Also, Michael has some questions that he would like to raise again, and I'm sure the others would also like to explore these issues. So, please feel free to post as time and motivation allow. With love and respect, Brother Roger Brother Roger, One reason I have always kept checking back here is that I appreciate the open nature you encourage for study and thank you for that. I've always approached study as something I don't have to be in total agreement with those I study with in order to gain something from it. I have learned some of my most precious lessons from the least expected places, especially experiences working with the homeless. I have seen God face to face through many of those individuals and learned that God can speak to us through anyone at anytime. God let me know when my journey began that it would be a ride and it has been, yet I know it's far from over. I'm a highly flawed human being, but I'm thankful to the Most High for his patience and forgiveness and for all that he shares with me. I will take your suggestion, and reply when motivated and will try to use good judgment also on when not to respond. Blessings, Zack

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